Comments on: Blogging: Who Makes Up the Rules? http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/ Marketing blog focused on marketing optimization, improving website conversion rates, search engine marketing, web analytics, word of mouth, etc. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:57:59 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Jeffrey Eisenberg http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-148580 Jeffrey Eisenberg Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:27:32 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-148580 Yvonne, It's never "too" late. Welcome to this conversation. You did the right thing on the interview. Your sponsor should be admired for their commitment to openness. Yvonne, It’s never “too” late. Welcome to this conversation. You did the right thing on the interview.

Your sponsor should be admired for their commitment to openness.

]]> By: Yvonne DiVita http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-148538 Yvonne DiVita Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:54:48 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-148538 I'm late to the table on this but this is an ongoing issue, so here goes... I was one of the folks Debbie wrote to. I saw nothing wrong with her note. I was happy to hop over to the blog and comment. Unfortunately, the blog was not really worthy. I commented because it was Debbie. AND, I decided maybe I'd give it the benefit of the doubt... it was new, and Debbie was working with them so... it could work out in the end. I asked for an interview and... well, I never did interview anyone. They wanted to control the questions. That's not how I do it. Sorry. I hope Debbie has recovered. As someone who writes a blog that is sponsored by a big company, I feel for her. Luckily, I made it clear that I would not be policed. We (the company and I) agreed on guidelines, which are posted right on the blog, and I am free to write as I please. So far... it's AOK. I’m late to the table on this but this is an ongoing issue, so here goes… I was one of the folks Debbie wrote to. I saw nothing wrong with her note. I was happy to hop over to the blog and comment. Unfortunately, the blog was not really worthy. I commented because it was Debbie. AND, I decided maybe I’d give it the benefit of the doubt… it was new, and Debbie was working with them so… it could work out in the end. I asked for an interview and… well, I never did interview anyone. They wanted to control the questions. That’s not how I do it. Sorry.

I hope Debbie has recovered. As someone who writes a blog that is sponsored by a big company, I feel for her. Luckily, I made it clear that I would not be policed. We (the company and I) agreed on guidelines, which are posted right on the blog, and I am free to write as I please. So far… it’s AOK.

]]> By: Eric Kintz http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-110249 Eric Kintz Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:38:19 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-110249 Jeffrey, Being one of the recipients of Debbie's email, I agree with you about her sense of ethics. I also agree with Shel that in hindsight she would have handled things differently in a more transparent manner. Corporate blogging requires acceptance of total transparency and authenticity Eric Jeffrey,
Being one of the recipients of Debbie’s email, I agree with you about her sense of ethics. I also agree with Shel that in hindsight she would have handled things differently in a more transparent manner. Corporate blogging requires acceptance of total transparency and authenticity
Eric

]]> By: B.L. Ochman's weblog: Internet marketing strategy, social media trends, news and commentary. http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-106205 B.L. Ochman's weblog: Internet marketing strategy, social media trends, news and commentary. Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:30:56 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-106205 <strong>The Icky Side Effects of MyAlli's Blog...</strong> Blogger Debbie Weil, author of The Corporate Blogging Book, has gotten herself in a bit of a mess. She was hired by Glaxo Smith Kline to create and edit a blog about the company's over-the-counter weight loss product, My Alli (pronounced My Al-eye). I... The Icky Side Effects of MyAlli’s Blog…

Blogger Debbie Weil, author of The Corporate Blogging Book, has gotten herself in a bit of a mess. She was hired by Glaxo Smith Kline to create and edit a blog about the company’s over-the-counter weight loss product, My Alli (pronounced My Al-eye). I…

]]> By: B.L. Ochman http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-106116 B.L. Ochman Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:23:23 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-106116 Wikipedia definition of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing" rel="nofollow">astroturfing</a>: "Astroturfing is a term for formal public relations campaigns in politics and advertising that seek to create the impression of being spontaneous, grassroots behavior. Hence the reference to AstroTurf (artificial grass) is a metaphor to indicate fake grassroots support." I create blogs for corporations too, and I tell them, right up front that if every post and comment has to be vetted by legal or PR, don't blog. In fact, I told that to Glaxo Smith Kline when I was paid to do a "brain dump" to bring them up to speed on blogging. The first slide in my presentation says "Message control is, and always has been, an illusion." They didn't hire me. Wikipedia definition of astroturfing: “Astroturfing is a term for formal public relations campaigns in politics and advertising that seek to create the impression of being spontaneous, grassroots behavior. Hence the reference to AstroTurf (artificial grass) is a metaphor to indicate fake grassroots support.”

I create blogs for corporations too, and I tell them, right up front that if every post and comment has to be vetted by legal or PR, don’t blog.

In fact, I told that to Glaxo Smith Kline when I was paid to do a “brain dump” to bring them up to speed on blogging.

The first slide in my presentation says “Message control is, and always has been, an illusion.”

They didn’t hire me.

]]> By: Jeffrey Eisenberg http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105928 Jeffrey Eisenberg Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:42:15 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105928 Allan, I'm not familiar with the term. What is astroturfing? Allan,

I’m not familiar with the term. What is astroturfing?

]]> By: Allan Jenkins http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105833 Allan Jenkins Sat, 14 Jul 2007 08:29:08 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105833 I am a PR guy, Jeffrey, which is why I object to Weil's tactic. "Astroturfing" -- which is what Weil was fishing for -- is a PR tactic many of us feel is unethical. And, no, it is not about making "rules for bloggers". Astroturfing was made a fine art by the Nixon White House, long before email and websites. I am a PR guy, Jeffrey, which is why I object to Weil’s tactic. “Astroturfing” — which is what Weil was fishing for — is a PR tactic many of us feel is unethical.

And, no, it is not about making “rules for bloggers”. Astroturfing was made a fine art by the Nixon White House, long before email and websites.

]]> By: Jeffrey Eisenberg http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105487 Jeffrey Eisenberg Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:19:23 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105487 Dennis, I'm not a PR guy either. As I said before, hindsight would have probably changed Debbie's actions; although I haven't asked her. This diet pill is not a product I would have wanted to help market since it doesn't withstand transparency well. However, I do know Debbie and therefore I happily give her the benefit of the doubt. You are welcome to disagree and based on what you could know of her I wouldn't think less of you. I do like your blog. Holy crap! Did I just say that? ;-) Dennis,

I’m not a PR guy either. As I said before, hindsight would have probably changed Debbie’s actions; although I haven’t asked her. This diet pill is not a product I would have wanted to help market since it doesn’t withstand transparency well. However, I do know Debbie and therefore I happily give her the benefit of the doubt. You are welcome to disagree and based on what you could know of her I wouldn’t think less of you. I do like your blog. Holy crap! Did I just say that? ;-)

]]> By: Dennis Howlett http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105452 Dennis Howlett Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:57:53 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105452 Jeffrey - you assert Debbie's 'ethics are strong.' Come on - you can't seriously expect those of us who DON'T know her to buy that. Who is their right mind is going to take on a gig where the company itself acknowledges that alli doesn't pass the 'brown trousers' test? And through a blog? Yes - I can well see why it's moderated. I'm all for making money, but when good sense goes out the window then you've got to ask what kind of ethics we're talking about here? Those of the 'I didn't inhale' type perhaps? Bottom line - this engagement is riddled with issues and how Ms. Weil missed any one of the DON'T DO IT signs is a mystery to me. But then I'm not a PR guy so I would think differently. Jeffrey – you assert Debbie’s ‘ethics are strong.’ Come on – you can’t seriously expect those of us who DON’T know her to buy that.

Who is their right mind is going to take on a gig where the company itself acknowledges that alli doesn’t pass the ‘brown trousers’ test? And through a blog? Yes – I can well see why it’s moderated.

I’m all for making money, but when good sense goes out the window then you’ve got to ask what kind of ethics we’re talking about here? Those of the ‘I didn’t inhale’ type perhaps?

Bottom line – this engagement is riddled with issues and how Ms. Weil missed any one of the DON’T DO IT signs is a mystery to me. But then I’m not a PR guy so I would think differently.

]]> By: Jeffrey Eisenberg http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105417 Jeffrey Eisenberg Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:27:18 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105417 Shel, You make a valid point when you offer the "Are people going to have a problem with this?" rule (although I prefer it as a guideline). I know Debbie and her ethics are strong so I'm not questioning her motivation. I imagine that with hindsight Debbie might have handled this all differently. Shel,

You make a valid point when you offer the “Are people going to have a problem with this?” rule (although I prefer it as a guideline). I know Debbie and her ethics are strong so I’m not questioning her motivation. I imagine that with hindsight Debbie might have handled this all differently.

]]> By: Shel Holtz http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105399 Shel Holtz Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:56:56 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105399 One of the rules I have set for myself is to not do anything that others will perceive as wrong, whether it is or not. I learned this rule after the Edelman/Vista/Acer Ferrari flap. Edelman and Microsoft made a few minor mistakes, but nothing egregious. The result, though, was more focus on the laptop giveaway than on Vista. It was a valuable lesson. I can't possibly anticipate everything the community might attack, but I can at least think through my plans and ask, "Are people going to have a problem with this?" If the answer is "yes," and that problem will overshadow the result I'm trying to achieve, I won't do it, regardless of whether there's anything wrong with my plan or not. Also, I frankly do have a problem with Debbie's suggestion that anybody posting to the blog not mention they know her. Hardly a shining example of transparency on a medium that is built on candor and openness. One of the rules I have set for myself is to not do anything that others will perceive as wrong, whether it is or not. I learned this rule after the Edelman/Vista/Acer Ferrari flap. Edelman and Microsoft made a few minor mistakes, but nothing egregious. The result, though, was more focus on the laptop giveaway than on Vista. It was a valuable lesson. I can’t possibly anticipate everything the community might attack, but I can at least think through my plans and ask, “Are people going to have a problem with this?” If the answer is “yes,” and that problem will overshadow the result I’m trying to achieve, I won’t do it, regardless of whether there’s anything wrong with my plan or not.

Also, I frankly do have a problem with Debbie’s suggestion that anybody posting to the blog not mention they know her. Hardly a shining example of transparency on a medium that is built on candor and openness.

]]> By: Ron Patiro http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105320 Ron Patiro Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:20:39 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105320 I just read "Uncle" Jakob's book Designing Web Usability where on page 256 he brings up user contributed content. The book was published last millennium in 1999 and gives a good vantage point on the origins of his disdain of an interactive web. He warns about how discussions "tend to degenerate into confusing free-for-alls." He also mentions the high cost of maintaining user generated content... He does toss it a bone in saying that it can be "valuable in improving design and direction of a site, I warn against trying to start a dialogue with your users unless you can devote substantial resources to doing so." While this is in reference to discussion boards which are not exactly today's blog, it is clear that he is digging a trench and holding onto a position against this interactive element of the web. I think he may have to keep redigging his trench, or just surrender to the sweeping power of today's interactive internet. I personally value his insight and would appreciate more objectivity in his analysis. I just read “Uncle” Jakob’s book Designing Web Usability where on page 256 he brings up user contributed content. The book was published last millennium in 1999 and gives a good vantage point on the origins of his disdain of an interactive web. He warns about how discussions “tend to degenerate into confusing free-for-alls.” He also mentions the high cost of maintaining user generated content… He does toss it a bone in saying that it can be “valuable in improving design and direction of a site, I warn against trying to start a dialogue with your users unless you can devote substantial resources to doing so.”

While this is in reference to discussion boards which are not exactly today’s blog, it is clear that he is digging a trench and holding onto a position against this interactive element of the web. I think he may have to keep redigging his trench, or just surrender to the sweeping power of today’s interactive internet.

I personally value his insight and would appreciate more objectivity in his analysis.

]]> By: Jeffrey Eisenberg http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105310 Jeffrey Eisenberg Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:07:34 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105310 Dennis, I agree. We can see through shils anyway, so it backfires on them. Still, asking people to comment is not a ruse. What Debbie did was promote a new blog and encourage people to read and comment on it. Dennis,

I agree. We can see through shils anyway, so it backfires on them. Still, asking people to comment is not a ruse. What Debbie did was promote a new blog and encourage people to read and comment on it.

]]> By: Dennis Howlett http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-105305 Dennis Howlett Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:03:00 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/13/blogging-who-makes-up-the-rules/#comment-105305 I could care less what PR shills do for their clients. I do care when they try and treat the rest of us like we're idiots and can't see through the ruse. That's not a rule statement BTW. I could care less what PR shills do for their clients. I do care when they try and treat the rest of us like we’re idiots and can’t see through the ruse. That’s not a rule statement BTW.

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