Comments on: Are Some SEO’s Becoming (*gasp*) Marketers? http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/ Marketing blog focused on marketing optimization, improving website conversion rates, search engine marketing, web analytics, word of mouth, etc. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:58:14 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: John Groom http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-1110329 John Groom Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:49:39 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-1110329 It seems a lot of it is the disconnect between the personality that gets the technical end of things quickly and the "rest of the world". Shucks -- even today, programs are often too hard to use because the tech guys who write them assume the users have a lot more technical background than they do in real life. Fine with me, I guess; I make a living that is in part based on my ability to translate "jive" (with apologies to Airplane, the movie). It seems a lot of it is the disconnect between the personality that gets the technical end of things quickly and the “rest of the world”. Shucks — even today, programs are often too hard to use because the tech guys who write them assume the users have a lot more technical background than they do in real life. Fine with me, I guess; I make a living that is in part based on my ability to translate “jive” (with apologies to Airplane, the movie).

]]> By: counter strike http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-724583 counter strike Thu, 15 May 2008 15:47:14 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-724583 Of course SEO is part of SEM but not only in SEO are good coding too.. dont forget about it! Of course SEO is part of SEM
but not only
in SEO are good coding too.. dont forget about it!

]]> By: seo http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-303907 seo Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:37:04 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-303907 <strong>seo...</strong> melisssas directorio, Directory(Board of directors) with everything what you need explores Internet and knows the web sites mas interesting.... seo…

melisssas directorio, Directory(Board of directors) with everything what you need explores Internet and knows the web sites mas interesting….

]]> By: Stoney deGeyter http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-109764 Stoney deGeyter Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:30:06 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-109764 Ian, I understand what you're saying but I don't think that algo-chasers = bad SEO. Bad marketing, perhaps, but not bad SEO. The algorithm chasing SEO has a place in the overall marketing of a website, just as a mechanic has a place on a race car team. But the mechanic is not responsible for how the car looks, that's someone else's job entirely. A good algorithmically knowledgeable SEO doesn't need to know usability so long as there is someone else he is teaming with that does. Unfortunately, our industry has take a while to get around to pairing the mechanics with the usability artists or learning it themselves. Ian, I understand what you’re saying but I don’t think that algo-chasers = bad SEO. Bad marketing, perhaps, but not bad SEO. The algorithm chasing SEO has a place in the overall marketing of a website, just as a mechanic has a place on a race car team. But the mechanic is not responsible for how the car looks, that’s someone else’s job entirely. A good algorithmically knowledgeable SEO doesn’t need to know usability so long as there is someone else he is teaming with that does. Unfortunately, our industry has take a while to get around to pairing the mechanics with the usability artists or learning it themselves.

]]> By: Northlight http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-109159 Northlight Tue, 17 Jul 2007 21:14:48 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-109159 At the moment, I prefer the terms internet marketing or online marketing, to include SEO, SEM, SMO or other current optimization and marketing acronyms. At the moment, I prefer the terms internet marketing or online marketing, to include SEO, SEM, SMO or other current optimization and marketing acronyms.

]]> By: Kurt http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-109137 Kurt Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:33:58 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-109137 Jonesy brings up a a couple of good points that, I have to admit, are among my particular "hot buttons" of late: 1) The "Eisenberg books" are indeed "great." 2) Universal principles like persuasion architecture resonate not just with (North) Americans, but internationally as well. 3) The "rest of the world" (e.g. outside of U.S.) is lagging, but WILL catch up! Therein perhaps lies some of the greatest opportunities for web-based marketing. Jonesy brings up a a couple of good points that, I have to admit, are among my particular “hot buttons” of late:

1) The “Eisenberg books” are indeed “great.”
2) Universal principles like persuasion architecture resonate not just with (North) Americans, but internationally as well.
3) The “rest of the world” (e.g. outside of U.S.) is lagging, but WILL catch up!

Therein perhaps lies some of the greatest opportunities for web-based marketing.

]]> By: Conversation Marketing http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-109128 Conversation Marketing Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:24:38 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-109128 <strong>Good SEOs Have Always Been Marketers...</strong> Grokdotcom posted an article yesterday titled “Are Some SEO's Becoming (*gasp*) Marketers?”. No. Good SEOs have always been marketers. Granted, good SEOs are, and always have been, in short supply. And it may be that these days, bad SEOs are lear... Good SEOs Have Always Been Marketers…

Grokdotcom posted an article yesterday titled “Are Some SEO’s Becoming (*gasp*) Marketers?”. No. Good SEOs have always been marketers. Granted, good SEOs are, and always have been, in short supply. And it may be that these days, bad SEOs are lear…

]]> By: Ian http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-109127 Ian Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:23:34 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-109127 Sorry, I have to take issue with this whole thing. Smart SEOs have always been marketers. Bad ones were algorithmic gamers, trying to cheat their way to the top of the search engines without attention to brand, market, audience or quality of site or content. This isn't some kind of change in SEO. This is bad practitioners starting to copy what the good ones are saying. Sorry, I have to take issue with this whole thing.

Smart SEOs have always been marketers. Bad ones were algorithmic gamers, trying to cheat their way to the top of the search engines without attention to brand, market, audience or quality of site or content.

This isn’t some kind of change in SEO. This is bad practitioners starting to copy what the good ones are saying.

]]> By: Are Some SEO's Becoming (*gasp*) Marketers? — Qualified Traffic SEO Tips and blog http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-109019 Are Some SEO's Becoming (*gasp*) Marketers? — Qualified Traffic SEO Tips and blog Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:19:36 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-109019 [...] persuasive design (i.e., marketing), accessibility and site functionality (software source: Are Some SEO’s Becoming (*gasp*) Marketers?, Conversion Rate Marketing Blog - GrokDotCom by [...] [...] persuasive design (i.e., marketing), accessibility and site functionality (software source: Are Some SEO’s Becoming (*gasp*) Marketers?, Conversion Rate Marketing Blog – GrokDotCom by [...]

]]> By: Meble Biurowe http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-108924 Meble Biurowe Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:22:28 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-108924 I start with coding websites in html. Then I became a php proggramer. There were better out there than me so I start doing SEO. Now I am much more in the SEM than SEO and I Completely agree with stoney that SEO is a part of SEM. I start with coding websites in html. Then I became a php proggramer. There were better out there than me so I start doing SEO. Now I am much more in the SEM than SEO and I Completely agree with stoney that SEO is a part of SEM.

]]> By: Stoney deGeyter http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-108848 Stoney deGeyter Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:06:43 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-108848 I've never been a fan of the term "search engine optimization" as I felt it was too limiting. I always thought of myself as a website marketer. SEO can (and should) be defined as a subset of website marketing (which could also be considered a sub-set of internet marketing (i.e. marketing online even if you don't have a website.)) Whatever it is we "SEOs" do, we need to be marketing websites by making them better in function, conversions and at drawing traffic. SEO is just one of the strategies in that arsenal. If I had my choice I would prefer my company to be known as a web marketing firm with roots in SEO. I’ve never been a fan of the term “search engine optimization” as I felt it was too limiting. I always thought of myself as a website marketer. SEO can (and should) be defined as a subset of website marketing (which could also be considered a sub-set of internet marketing (i.e. marketing online even if you don’t have a website.))

Whatever it is we “SEOs” do, we need to be marketing websites by making them better in function, conversions and at drawing traffic. SEO is just one of the strategies in that arsenal. If I had my choice I would prefer my company to be known as a web marketing firm with roots in SEO.

]]> By: Jonesy http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-108534 Jonesy Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:19:14 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-108534 As a seasoned developer of 15 years who's only now benefiting from the great Eisenberg books I can honestly say that, for smaller companies in particular, many more developers and designers need to understand the SEO/M side of things (and apply it). There is a huge skills gap in these companies, particularly here in the UK. Only the larger organisations that can afford to take on specialists in the field will see the benefits, but even then they don't always work together well with designers/developers and friction arises. The next few years will surely see more and more developers gaining these skills by default. I can sort of draw a parallel with designers having to pick up CSS skills as they've had to over the last few years. It will happen! As a seasoned developer of 15 years who’s only now benefiting from the great Eisenberg books I can honestly say that, for smaller companies in particular, many more developers and designers need to understand the SEO/M side of things (and apply it). There is a huge skills gap in these companies, particularly here in the UK. Only the larger organisations that can afford to take on specialists in the field will see the benefits, but even then they don’t always work together well with designers/developers and friction arises. The next few years will surely see more and more developers gaining these skills by default. I can sort of draw a parallel with designers having to pick up CSS skills as they’ve had to over the last few years. It will happen!

]]> By: Leapfrogg http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-108524 Leapfrogg Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:14:25 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-108524 Any SEO company worth their salt these days should be able to advise on a number of aspects outside pure site optimisation techniques. Unfortunately there are still a few old timers out there who are only interested in rankings and not increasing conversions and sales as an end goal. Any SEO company worth their salt these days should be able to advise on a number of aspects outside pure site optimisation techniques. Unfortunately there are still a few old timers out there who are only interested in rankings and not increasing conversions and sales as an end goal.

]]> By: SEO Ranter http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-108255 SEO Ranter Tue, 17 Jul 2007 02:33:43 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-108255 Haha, heaven forbid! SEOs creating good content? Could it be? We can only hope.. ;) Haha, heaven forbid! SEOs creating good content? Could it be? We can only hope.. ;)

]]> By: Andrew Goodman http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-107955 Andrew Goodman Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:17:33 +0000 http://www.grokdotcom.com/2007/07/16/are-some-seos-becoming-gasp-marketers/#comment-107955 You might want to look a bit more at the debate between Mike Grehan and the group at threadwatch.org. The Grehan critic there uses a fair bit of pejorative language to describe Mike's "marketing" world and supposed lack of SEO chops. He also at one point inexplicably wonders whether Grehan's brain has been taken over by "paid search profiteers" (huh? you wonder what that even means... there is an odd obsession with old school SEO purity that persists in the SEO world... so in that sense, a lot of 'em really aren't interested in a day job that integrates with a marketing plan overall). *Some* SEO's are growing increasingly strategic and multifaceted. Others just say they are, but would rather remain edgy and "different," and lecture their clients rather than work with them. To each his own, I guess. You might want to look a bit more at the debate between Mike Grehan and the group at threadwatch.org. The Grehan critic there uses a fair bit of pejorative language to describe Mike’s “marketing” world and supposed lack of SEO chops. He also at one point inexplicably wonders whether Grehan’s brain has been taken over by “paid search profiteers” (huh? you wonder what that even means… there is an odd obsession with old school SEO purity that persists in the SEO world… so in that sense, a lot of ‘em really aren’t interested in a day job that integrates with a marketing plan overall).

*Some* SEO’s are growing increasingly strategic and multifaceted. Others just say they are, but would rather remain edgy and “different,” and lecture their clients rather than work with them. To each his own, I guess.

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