Lydia, how do you expect to take the big leaps later if your start-up is weakened by poor copy? If in infancy your site is netting $650 k, and you’re shooting to double it, why do you think taking “baby steps” (is that to justify using poor copy?) will help you get there? No offence intended, but web marketing appears to be bringing in the big bucks to so much shoddy content, that more effective content is regarded as an extravagance. It’s exactly this kind of approach to effective writing that Ross and I – I think – deplore. Your point appears to be that, ‘if “baby steps” can yield $650 k, why bother with expensive good copy?’ while the experienced copywriter will ask,’Why not make more than $650 k with good copy instead of “baby steps”?’

Montey, we’re about the same age! Interesting. I apologize to anyone in India, Africa, Russia or China for implying less-than-stellar copywriting talent there. I was referring mostly to the huge disparity in prices. As for bad copy, unfortunately bad copy can be found everywehre, including the US – and unfortunately even here, most copy I have seen is at best mediocre. That is endemic to the industry I suspect world-wide. I certainly have seen brilliant writing out of India, though it is as rare as it is here.

CVOSman – corporate copy and their invasion of social networks (let alone the rest of the web) is undermining, IMHO, much of the value of these sites. As this happens, places like myspace become less useful. GREED is a powerful force. What corporations need to learn is that it is possible to empower people and networks in ways that are not exclusively greed-based, and ways that will eventually provide an even greater return in the long run than those short-term strategies that are so destructive. Yes, I am an idealist.

Joe, persuasive language is often only the start of writing good copy. Yet most people don’t even understand the necessity of that, let alone going beyond that (grabbing the reader’s attention, drawing the reader in, guiding them through the decision-making process all the way through to the call to action, reinforcing the buying decision, minimizing cart abandonments, building brand awareness/identity, establishing positioning/differentiation, building credibiliyt, etc., etc., etc.).

Everything all around us is selling something all the time – persuasion is such a part of our lives it is like the air we breath, and we don’t even notice (some of us) that it is there – much as fish don’t even know about water. A poem is persuading us to feel something. A movie or book is persuading us to believe in something, whether an ideal or a fantasy. A friend is persuading us to wear the latest styles. So many people think they are experts in persuasion – but it does not come as naturally as people think, just because it is all around us. Yet that does make it harder for people to understand the value of copywriting. I am still looking for a way to explain this to potential clients however! It’s easy to discuss it with fellow copywriters!

Can your customers read what you write?

Again, you’ve touched on the underlying problem. Putting “filler copy” in place may be a sensible band-aid solution, but it shows that the site’s content isn’t actually being planned; it’s become an afterthought to the structure of the site. In cases like that, the copywriter has to tailor the customer experience to the website — not the other way around, as it should be.

Sorry to seem self-serving by bringing up Persuasion Architecture again, but these are the problems it solves. The good news is that, even if the site’s content and structure haven’t been planned at the same time, it’s still possible to fix a fair amount of the experience by optimizing from the customer’s perspective.

Any way you slice it, though, good copy is worth whatever you paid for it. Dave Young has a good post from May about these issues.

I would love it if our developers would put “filler” copy and allow us to create our own once the structure is in place. That would be great.

The other “problem” almost everyone has is that they can not admit that they are as affected by persuasive language as the next person. To admit that persuasive language works would be to acknowledge “mental weakness”. Consistently persuasive salesmaen and copywriters just have the “magic touch”. There isn’t really a method to it. This belief is as ubiquitous as it is false. It would seem that people carry a natural prejudice against the salesman and the copywriter. You need only onsider the lowly image of the successful used car salesman. The superstitious suspicion in which they and simlarly successful persuaders are held speaks to the level of fear people harbour where persuasive laguage is involved. To admit that consistent use of persuasive language principles cotributed to their success, and power, is a level of reality beyond most people.

Some designers know – or expect – ‘marketing/copy’ to change text on forms, fault reports etc – and so they put ‘temporary’ text in during development.

Sadly these are not always picked up in testing (if – big if – testing takes place, how often do you deliberately make something not work in order to read the resulting error-page instructions?).

I caught one that had gone live that said ‘if youv’e got this page its because youre f*****g stupid’ – but without the asterisks. The poor spelling/grammar was the least of my concerns.

Chalk one up for having someone who carries the responsibility of site management in order to address the ‘your fault not ours’ issue that comes from all parties concerned.

Are you a developer or a copywriter? I wasn’t sure from your comments, because I know this frustration runs both ways.

Regardless, you’re exactly right. If company wants to do it right, they’ll have a plan in place to account for how content elements fit together. That’s what we do with our Persuasion Architecture™ methodology. Planning the visitor experience in advance is the only way to hold marketing accountable. Otherwise, marketers end up spinning their wheels, trying to hold web developers and copywriters accountable when it’s really their lack of planning that’s to blame.

I would had love to subscribe to the hyperlink contest, but my web site is in French only

Knowing it is more than half the battle. My suggestion is to either have someone like your mom or a 5-6th grader read it to make sure it makes sense to them.

I try my best to improve myself by reading Grokdotcom and using common sense.

But I lack the magic touch. But at least I know it