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	<title>Comments on: Is Your Landing Page 2008&#8230;and your Action Page 1998?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grokdotcom.com/index.php/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/</link>
	<description>Marketing blog focused on marketing optimization, improving website conversion rates, search engine marketing, web analytics, word of mouth, etc.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:38:51 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Genetic</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1201853</link>
		<dc:creator>Genetic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1201853</guid>
		<description>Great article!

I just add this article in my bookmark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article!</p>
<p>I just add this article in my bookmark.</p>
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		<title>By: Shopbycoupons</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1176222</link>
		<dc:creator>Shopbycoupons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1176222</guid>
		<description>The same goes here too. I don&#039;t mind giving relevant information out, but when they want to know all kinds of details and it is form after form nearly 100% of the time I have aready lost interest and switched to another site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same goes here too. I don&#8217;t mind giving relevant information out, but when they want to know all kinds of details and it is form after form nearly 100% of the time I have aready lost interest and switched to another site.</p>
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		<title>By: Landlord</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1157434</link>
		<dc:creator>Landlord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 06:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1157434</guid>
		<description>Along a similar note, I sometimes tire of my advisers, and others who insist they know what is best for the clients when it comes to data they should be entering.  Requiring a customer to fill in 10 extra form items because it&#039;s data we would &quot;like&quot; to have, for research purposes, etc, I think is one of the quickest ways to lose customers.

If I stumble across a form for a product I&#039;m interested in and they ask me everything under the Sun, they lose my business period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along a similar note, I sometimes tire of my advisers, and others who insist they know what is best for the clients when it comes to data they should be entering.  Requiring a customer to fill in 10 extra form items because it&#8217;s data we would &#8220;like&#8221; to have, for research purposes, etc, I think is one of the quickest ways to lose customers.</p>
<p>If I stumble across a form for a product I&#8217;m interested in and they ask me everything under the Sun, they lose my business period.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1079909</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1079909</guid>
		<description>@Scott Salwolke: I think many of us in the consulting/service world are guilty of neglecting our own online presence in favor of our clients&#039;.  That&#039;s probably why WoM is extra-important!  

And to all reading this post and the great comments, don&#039;t forget that Grok readers can get a 10% discount on any Rosenfeld Media book; just use coupon code GROKDOT at checkout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott Salwolke: I think many of us in the consulting/service world are guilty of neglecting our own online presence in favor of our clients&#8217;.  That&#8217;s probably why WoM is extra-important!  </p>
<p>And to all reading this post and the great comments, don&#8217;t forget that Grok readers can get a 10% discount on any Rosenfeld Media book; just use coupon code GROKDOT at checkout.</p>
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		<title>By: Larissa Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1056700</link>
		<dc:creator>Larissa Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1056700</guid>
		<description>Hi Johnny LunchPail,

On the anti-CAPTCHA question, click on my name above and you&#039;ll go to one option, which is a Web service my firm developed called Form Armor.

We&#039;ve been compiling research data on form abuse since 2002, and the only other non-CAPTCHA solutions I&#039;m aware of involve scripting that requires a fair amount of weekly code maintenance to stay ahead of the spammers. In terms of stopping spam, effectiveness for the scripts we tested has also been about the same as CAPTCHA -- pretty dismal -- but it&#039;s definitely a less intrusive option for the end user.

Have you tested different anti-spam solutions on your Web forms to see what might work best? If so, what kind of responses did you see -- both for conversion rates and the level of staff complaints? If you&#039;d like to talk about this further, you can use the contact form on our Web site to reach me... or I&#039;m sure Brendan and the smart folks here at FutureNow would be glad to help you with testing different scenarios, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Johnny LunchPail,</p>
<p>On the anti-CAPTCHA question, click on my name above and you&#8217;ll go to one option, which is a Web service my firm developed called Form Armor.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve been compiling research data on form abuse since 2002, and the only other non-CAPTCHA solutions I&#8217;m aware of involve scripting that requires a fair amount of weekly code maintenance to stay ahead of the spammers. In terms of stopping spam, effectiveness for the scripts we tested has also been about the same as CAPTCHA &#8212; pretty dismal &#8212; but it&#8217;s definitely a less intrusive option for the end user.</p>
<p>Have you tested different anti-spam solutions on your Web forms to see what might work best? If so, what kind of responses did you see &#8212; both for conversion rates and the level of staff complaints? If you&#8217;d like to talk about this further, you can use the contact form on our Web site to reach me&#8230; or I&#8217;m sure Brendan and the smart folks here at FutureNow would be glad to help you with testing different scenarios, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Willard</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1056643</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Willard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1056643</guid>
		<description>Hey Mr Lunchpail, great question.

50% sounds pretty solid from my experience.  I have seen numbers ranging from a few percent up into the 80% ballpark depending mostly on the context and the type of newsletter.  For instance, a request to sign up for a price alert after checkout might have a very good conversion if the purchase was something purchased regularly like pet food.  I am curious to hear what others have seen too though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Mr Lunchpail, great question.</p>
<p>50% sounds pretty solid from my experience.  I have seen numbers ranging from a few percent up into the 80% ballpark depending mostly on the context and the type of newsletter.  For instance, a request to sign up for a price alert after checkout might have a very good conversion if the purchase was something purchased regularly like pet food.  I am curious to hear what others have seen too though.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny LunchPail</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1056615</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny LunchPail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1056615</guid>
		<description>Great article and great comments. I&#039;ll be purchasing that book. A few questions I would like to ask the brain collective:

- CAPTCHA - Lisa Reynolds mentioned this is a no no. I couldn&#039;t agree more. However as I attempt to fight the good fight and minimize end user friction I get more requests to &quot;stop form SPAM&quot;. Can you explain or highlight the &quot;newer (and more effective) technology for stopping form spam and abuse&quot;?
- Does anyone know of an industry average for email newsletter signup conversion? I can&#039;t find anything online. Due to development limitations our newsletter sign up feature is actually a separate page on the site. We are around 50% conversion rate which would be outstanding for a purchase but I&#039;m not sure about an email signup.
- I&#039;ve read some good things about adding trust icons (like hackersafe) to forms. I believe they are supposed to increase conversions. We target boomers and seniors who in my opinion might like the extra reassurance these seals allegedly provide. Thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article and great comments. I&#8217;ll be purchasing that book. A few questions I would like to ask the brain collective:</p>
<p>- CAPTCHA &#8211; Lisa Reynolds mentioned this is a no no. I couldn&#8217;t agree more. However as I attempt to fight the good fight and minimize end user friction I get more requests to &#8220;stop form SPAM&#8221;. Can you explain or highlight the &#8220;newer (and more effective) technology for stopping form spam and abuse&#8221;?<br />
- Does anyone know of an industry average for email newsletter signup conversion? I can&#8217;t find anything online. Due to development limitations our newsletter sign up feature is actually a separate page on the site. We are around 50% conversion rate which would be outstanding for a purchase but I&#8217;m not sure about an email signup.<br />
- I&#8217;ve read some good things about adding trust icons (like hackersafe) to forms. I believe they are supposed to increase conversions. We target boomers and seniors who in my opinion might like the extra reassurance these seals allegedly provide. Thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Salwolke</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1056176</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Salwolke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1056176</guid>
		<description>I look forward to checking out the book. I&#039;d also like to hear from others, including Brendan, about how much time they&#039;ve spent on their home pages and landing pages. To be honest, I often neglect my site, while going over every detail for my client&#039;s sites. And I wonder if that neglect has cost me potential clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look forward to checking out the book. I&#8217;d also like to hear from others, including Brendan, about how much time they&#8217;ve spent on their home pages and landing pages. To be honest, I often neglect my site, while going over every detail for my client&#8217;s sites. And I wonder if that neglect has cost me potential clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Willard</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1055833</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Willard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1055833</guid>
		<description>Over the past decade, I have tested hundreds of different forms while working for US banks, and rule number 2 above, &quot;look at every question
,&quot; is huge.  

One of my colleagues, Rick Starbuck, once said, &quot;the war is lost one little sodier at a time&quot; as we argued with legal staff at a top ten bank to try to eliminate yet another low value input field on a new account opening form.  We used to keep a scorecard of how many input fields we had, and how many each of our competitors had, with the goal always being to have the most streamlined application possible.  As a result of attention to these details, the sites I have been working with have almost always had the best conversion of any banking sites.  

There is a LOT of upside in everything in forms.  My checklist would include the following at least:
- Call to action button position and design
- Which form fields are present, absent, required and optional
- Terms acceptance methods
- Form field labels
- Order that you present form fields in
- Instructional copy
- Help availability and identification</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over the past decade, I have tested hundreds of different forms while working for US banks, and rule number 2 above, &#8220;look at every question<br />
,&#8221; is huge.  </p>
<p>One of my colleagues, Rick Starbuck, once said, &#8220;the war is lost one little sodier at a time&#8221; as we argued with legal staff at a top ten bank to try to eliminate yet another low value input field on a new account opening form.  We used to keep a scorecard of how many input fields we had, and how many each of our competitors had, with the goal always being to have the most streamlined application possible.  As a result of attention to these details, the sites I have been working with have almost always had the best conversion of any banking sites.  </p>
<p>There is a LOT of upside in everything in forms.  My checklist would include the following at least:<br />
- Call to action button position and design<br />
- Which form fields are present, absent, required and optional<br />
- Terms acceptance methods<br />
- Form field labels<br />
- Order that you present form fields in<br />
- Instructional copy<br />
- Help availability and identification</p>
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		<title>By: Lening</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1050943</link>
		<dc:creator>Lening</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1050943</guid>
		<description>This book is very useful when creating landing pages. I always use it as a checklist whenever I create a new one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This book is very useful when creating landing pages. I always use it as a checklist whenever I create a new one.</p>
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		<title>By: Larissa Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1050846</link>
		<dc:creator>Larissa Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1050846</guid>
		<description>&#039;Web Form Design&#039; is a fantastic book and I find myself referring back to it as a checklist and reference every time we create, test or re-visit a form or landing page. (It seems like there&#039;s always something I&#039;ve forgotten or find that I can improve, thanks to Luke W&#039;s book.)

One issue I wish were covered more often in the context of form design is the use of CAPTCHA images to stop form spam and abuse. For most marketers it&#039;s a no-brainer to avoid CAPTCHAs on a landing page, but I&#039;m always amazed when (as a user) I get to the end of an otherwise pleasant form experience and then face the insult of proving that I&#039;m &quot;qualified&quot; as a human being.

CAPTCHA is a Web relic that currently fails to stop spam as much as 90-92% of the time. Regardless of how many resources we use to create engaging forms, using CAPTCHA to stop form abuse just means more abuse for users.

I&#039;d suggest that when taking that good, hard look at your Web forms, the first item on the optimization list should be to abandon CAPTCHA in favor of newer (and more effective) technology for stopping form spam and abuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Web Form Design&#8217; is a fantastic book and I find myself referring back to it as a checklist and reference every time we create, test or re-visit a form or landing page. (It seems like there&#8217;s always something I&#8217;ve forgotten or find that I can improve, thanks to Luke W&#8217;s book.)</p>
<p>One issue I wish were covered more often in the context of form design is the use of CAPTCHA images to stop form spam and abuse. For most marketers it&#8217;s a no-brainer to avoid CAPTCHAs on a landing page, but I&#8217;m always amazed when (as a user) I get to the end of an otherwise pleasant form experience and then face the insult of proving that I&#8217;m &#8220;qualified&#8221; as a human being.</p>
<p>CAPTCHA is a Web relic that currently fails to stop spam as much as 90-92% of the time. Regardless of how many resources we use to create engaging forms, using CAPTCHA to stop form abuse just means more abuse for users.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest that when taking that good, hard look at your Web forms, the first item on the optimization list should be to abandon CAPTCHA in favor of newer (and more effective) technology for stopping form spam and abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Einer</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1050827</link>
		<dc:creator>Einer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 06:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1050827</guid>
		<description>Impressive lists of good questions. Worth printing and reviewing as a checklist once in a while not only with landing pages but with all pages in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Impressive lists of good questions. Worth printing and reviewing as a checklist once in a while not only with landing pages but with all pages in general.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Straker</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1047276</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Straker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1047276</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s so true... forms too often are ignored. 

My pet peeve is forms on which the most promient button (lower right) is either &quot;Clear Form&quot; or &quot;Cancel&quot;! Such buttons should be lined up against the wall and shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s so true&#8230; forms too often are ignored. </p>
<p>My pet peeve is forms on which the most promient button (lower right) is either &#8220;Clear Form&#8221; or &#8220;Cancel&#8221;! Such buttons should be lined up against the wall and shot.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidCastroFlorida</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1046532</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidCastroFlorida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 01:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1046532</guid>
		<description>Even for B2B startups like us, weve learned (wont say how long it took us) our best practice is ~1% of our total pages are dedicated &quot;calls to action&quot; pages.  And 90%+ of our pages contain calls to action functionality, sometimes with multiple calls per page b/c its still amazing where the leads come from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even for B2B startups like us, weve learned (wont say how long it took us) our best practice is ~1% of our total pages are dedicated &#8220;calls to action&#8221; pages.  And 90%+ of our pages contain calls to action functionality, sometimes with multiple calls per page b/c its still amazing where the leads come from.</p>
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		<title>By: Audio Bible</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-1045511</link>
		<dc:creator>Audio Bible</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/2008/09/16/is-your-first-page-2008and-your-last-page-1998/#comment-1045511</guid>
		<description>A recommendation from ya’ll is good enough for me, so I just bought the book. I do think my checkout process is pretty good based on general standards but I also realize it can be better. I am planning for this to be the first area I am going to test, with Google webpage optimizer, coming soon :-). 
So this new book will hopefully give me some new ideas on how to set up my shopping cart page better and then I will set up a good A/B test. After that, I will then go to the customer input page.

 Thanks for the book suggestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A recommendation from ya’ll is good enough for me, so I just bought the book. I do think my checkout process is pretty good based on general standards but I also realize it can be better. I am planning for this to be the first area I am going to test, with Google webpage optimizer, coming soon <img src='http://www.grokdotcom.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .<br />
So this new book will hopefully give me some new ideas on how to set up my shopping cart page better and then I will set up a good A/B test. After that, I will then go to the customer input page.</p>
<p> Thanks for the book suggestion.</p>
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