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	<title>Comments on: Why Bother to Collect Data?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.grokdotcom.com/index.php/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/</link>
	<description>Marketing blog focused on marketing optimization, improving website conversion rates, search engine marketing, web analytics, word of mouth, etc.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:38:51 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1202157</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1202157</guid>
		<description>wonderful article
good question
i believe that the reason is  the lack of the analysis knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wonderful article<br />
good question<br />
i believe that the reason is  the lack of the analysis knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1176234</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1176234</guid>
		<description>Collecting the data isn&#039;t the difficult part, it is the ability to analyse it and then interpret it to see how it can be used for your business&#039;s benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Collecting the data isn&#8217;t the difficult part, it is the ability to analyse it and then interpret it to see how it can be used for your business&#8217;s benefit.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cool articles &#8211; up until 24jun2009 &#8211; web 2.0, SEO, SEM, online stuff &#171; Stefanm, my link collection</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1174851</link>
		<dc:creator>cool articles &#8211; up until 24jun2009 &#8211; web 2.0, SEO, SEM, online stuff &#171; Stefanm, my link collection</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1174851</guid>
		<description>[...] why bother collecting data? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] why bother collecting data? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Abbott</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1169032</link>
		<dc:creator>David Abbott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 17:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1169032</guid>
		<description>Our team is guilty of this -- too busy and no clear plan to respond to the data we are collecting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our team is guilty of this &#8212; too busy and no clear plan to respond to the data we are collecting.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Patiro</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1168275</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Patiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 15:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1168275</guid>
		<description>Two words:  Analysis paralysis.

Too much information , particularly for companies that don&#039;t have a firm grasp on their goals and KPIs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two words:  Analysis paralysis.</p>
<p>Too much information , particularly for companies that don&#8217;t have a firm grasp on their goals and KPIs.</p>
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		<title>By: Rejser til Antalya</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1168210</link>
		<dc:creator>Rejser til Antalya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 09:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1168210</guid>
		<description>I agree on the lazy-comment. You can look at your data, but if you have to act on them, it takes (a lot of) time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree on the lazy-comment. You can look at your data, but if you have to act on them, it takes (a lot of) time.</p>
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		<title>By: Ahmed Bassel</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167662</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahmed Bassel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 12:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167662</guid>
		<description>I believe it&#039;s because of the lack of the analysis knowledge. 

The internet for marketing people is very new, it started for technical and and with time it evolved. Marketing now aware of this new medium and trying to engage and understand how to use the data behind the human behaviors online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe it&#8217;s because of the lack of the analysis knowledge. </p>
<p>The internet for marketing people is very new, it started for technical and and with time it evolved. Marketing now aware of this new medium and trying to engage and understand how to use the data behind the human behaviors online.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Greg Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167308</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 22:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167308</guid>
		<description>Blogs about A/B tests frequently show *examples* of something they optimized.  

Blogs about Analytics rarely site examples of something they optimized.

Hmmm...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blogs about A/B tests frequently show *examples* of something they optimized.  </p>
<p>Blogs about Analytics rarely site examples of something they optimized.</p>
<p>Hmmm&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sébastien Brodeur</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167142</link>
		<dc:creator>Sébastien Brodeur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 16:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167142</guid>
		<description>1 - Silos. Organization tend to work in silos.  People responsible for marketing (where web analytics &quot;exist&quot;) are not the same responsible of the products offering (where new products are developed).

2 - Web analytics is still new.  We still have to proof we can have value.  Data discrepancies is still (wrongly) a show stopper sometime.

Solution?  We, as web analytics practitioner, must educate decision makers. Show the VALUE of doing this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1 &#8211; Silos. Organization tend to work in silos.  People responsible for marketing (where web analytics &#8220;exist&#8221;) are not the same responsible of the products offering (where new products are developed).</p>
<p>2 &#8211; Web analytics is still new.  We still have to proof we can have value.  Data discrepancies is still (wrongly) a show stopper sometime.</p>
<p>Solution?  We, as web analytics practitioner, must educate decision makers. Show the VALUE of doing this.</p>
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		<title>By: Ophir</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167119</link>
		<dc:creator>Ophir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 14:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167119</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Laura.

I think the biggest issue that that most companies see their web site as a &quot;static&quot; entity like a house, not as a dynamic entity as it should be.

This means in terms of budgeting time and money, most companies are not including in their budgets something along the lines of &quot;make changes to web site based on analysis of web analytics&quot;.

Most marketers are over-loaded as it is, and it&#039;s simpler for them to just run another campaign then trying to make changes to the site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Laura.</p>
<p>I think the biggest issue that that most companies see their web site as a &#8220;static&#8221; entity like a house, not as a dynamic entity as it should be.</p>
<p>This means in terms of budgeting time and money, most companies are not including in their budgets something along the lines of &#8220;make changes to web site based on analysis of web analytics&#8221;.</p>
<p>Most marketers are over-loaded as it is, and it&#8217;s simpler for them to just run another campaign then trying to make changes to the site.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167054</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 06:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167054</guid>
		<description>How does the saying go…You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make the CMO drink the kool-aid?

Even if the data is collected, correctly analyzed, and deemed actionable and valuable, it may not be cost effective to allocate resources to a channel that only brings in 3% of total revenue. Consider the effort it takes for a multi-million dollar corporation to change a Title Tag…hours of meetings about why to do it, when to do it, can IT do it in-house or does the hosting company have to do it or does the Creative Agency have to do it, does Legal have to review it, does Creative have to review it, does Marketing have to review it, is it ‘on brand’, is the change just to the Corporate site, to the Investor site, to micro-sites, to local sites or all of the above, is a work order required, what is the turnaround time, does this take priority over product and inventory updates; and these are just the discussions before a work order request is even submitted. Now factor in salaries, agency fees, service fees, tracking tool expenses…all this time and money to improve organic rank by 3 positions? It’s just easier to re-run last year’s commercial. Besides, Online’s budget is being cut next Quarter…again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does the saying go…You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make the CMO drink the kool-aid?</p>
<p>Even if the data is collected, correctly analyzed, and deemed actionable and valuable, it may not be cost effective to allocate resources to a channel that only brings in 3% of total revenue. Consider the effort it takes for a multi-million dollar corporation to change a Title Tag…hours of meetings about why to do it, when to do it, can IT do it in-house or does the hosting company have to do it or does the Creative Agency have to do it, does Legal have to review it, does Creative have to review it, does Marketing have to review it, is it ‘on brand’, is the change just to the Corporate site, to the Investor site, to micro-sites, to local sites or all of the above, is a work order required, what is the turnaround time, does this take priority over product and inventory updates; and these are just the discussions before a work order request is even submitted. Now factor in salaries, agency fees, service fees, tracking tool expenses…all this time and money to improve organic rank by 3 positions? It’s just easier to re-run last year’s commercial. Besides, Online’s budget is being cut next Quarter…again.</p>
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		<title>By: sunfever</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167050</link>
		<dc:creator>sunfever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 05:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167050</guid>
		<description>Jeff is right, that&#039;s one of my favourite jokes too.  A hi-tech salesman short on tech will get so fired up by listening to the techies go overboard with their gizmo that he will sincerely believe that we already have FTL technology :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff is right, that&#8217;s one of my favourite jokes too.  A hi-tech salesman short on tech will get so fired up by listening to the techies go overboard with their gizmo that he will sincerely believe that we already have FTL technology <img src='http://www.grokdotcom.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167013</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 21:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167013</guid>
		<description>I think part of the challenge is making sense of the data, know what to change/test/improve. The other part of the challenge is finding the resources to actually make the tests/changes happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think part of the challenge is making sense of the data, know what to change/test/improve. The other part of the challenge is finding the resources to actually make the tests/changes happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167011</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 21:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167011</guid>
		<description>There are many marketers out there that don&#039;t know what to do with or how to analyze the data they collect. 

Marketers need a good tool, but they also need to have a reliable partner that helps them get the most out of the tool they&#039;re using.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many marketers out there that don&#8217;t know what to do with or how to analyze the data they collect. </p>
<p>Marketers need a good tool, but they also need to have a reliable partner that helps them get the most out of the tool they&#8217;re using.</p>
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		<title>By: natural sinus cure</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1167009</link>
		<dc:creator>natural sinus cure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 20:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1167009</guid>
		<description>I think many people are just plain lazy.  Let&#039;s face it, analyzing data and then actually acting upon it including setting up a/b tests or multivariate tests takes time and effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think many people are just plain lazy.  Let&#8217;s face it, analyzing data and then actually acting upon it including setting up a/b tests or multivariate tests takes time and effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Auns</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1166999</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Auns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 17:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1166999</guid>
		<description>My gut feeling: Traditionally &#039;Marketers&#039; were never specifically responsible for moving quantitative business objectives forward. They are absolutely a critical piece of the business puzzle ... but it was more common for the work of Sales, or Business Development types (fully supported by the marketing deliverables) to move the business forward. The success measures of traditional Marketers efforts were more often made in terms of brand, awareness, or other such qualitative measures.

Along comes the digital channel, and Marketers are now responsible for many more quantitative objectives through this inherently more reportable medium. This is a huge shift that needs to be accounted for (i.e. How many traditional marketers operated under a direct performance related quota? How many digital marketers efforts are measured in conversion and or sales?)

Again, this is just my opinion, but I would attribute the monitor vs. react ratio that you highlight Bryan to be a trickle down from the more traditional fit of this role in the old enterprise. With the digital channel moving closer to the center of every modern marketers universe, I think your numbers reflect a shift in the role of Marketing in an organization, than on the tools/technology used to support the role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My gut feeling: Traditionally &#8216;Marketers&#8217; were never specifically responsible for moving quantitative business objectives forward. They are absolutely a critical piece of the business puzzle &#8230; but it was more common for the work of Sales, or Business Development types (fully supported by the marketing deliverables) to move the business forward. The success measures of traditional Marketers efforts were more often made in terms of brand, awareness, or other such qualitative measures.</p>
<p>Along comes the digital channel, and Marketers are now responsible for many more quantitative objectives through this inherently more reportable medium. This is a huge shift that needs to be accounted for (i.e. How many traditional marketers operated under a direct performance related quota? How many digital marketers efforts are measured in conversion and or sales?)</p>
<p>Again, this is just my opinion, but I would attribute the monitor vs. react ratio that you highlight Bryan to be a trickle down from the more traditional fit of this role in the old enterprise. With the digital channel moving closer to the center of every modern marketers universe, I think your numbers reflect a shift in the role of Marketing in an organization, than on the tools/technology used to support the role.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Induni</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1166996</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Induni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 17:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1166996</guid>
		<description>I believe the answer is two part:
1. Marketers have been given reason to believe answers will appear before them like some miracle. In fact, you still have to think, analyze, plan, test, MAKE MISTAKES, and try again.
2. Most marketers ask the question “did the campaign work” instead of “WHAT drove success/failure in the campaign”, and I believe this to be because most lack the ability and/or are not allowed the time to analyze the results rather than review them.

I treat web analytics as a very technical thing, maybe because I was schooled as an engineer, and most don’t treat it as such. In engineering you’re taught to plan, test, prototype, create, and gather end user feedback. In web analytics, we’re taught to review the data, make some tweaks and hope it moves the needle in the direction we want. Imagine what Windows would be like if the results from the battery of testing before release was not acted upon?! Web analytics are essentially the test results to our web site being used by our visitors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the answer is two part:<br />
1. Marketers have been given reason to believe answers will appear before them like some miracle. In fact, you still have to think, analyze, plan, test, MAKE MISTAKES, and try again.<br />
2. Most marketers ask the question “did the campaign work” instead of “WHAT drove success/failure in the campaign”, and I believe this to be because most lack the ability and/or are not allowed the time to analyze the results rather than review them.</p>
<p>I treat web analytics as a very technical thing, maybe because I was schooled as an engineer, and most don’t treat it as such. In engineering you’re taught to plan, test, prototype, create, and gather end user feedback. In web analytics, we’re taught to review the data, make some tweaks and hope it moves the needle in the direction we want. Imagine what Windows would be like if the results from the battery of testing before release was not acted upon?! Web analytics are essentially the test results to our web site being used by our visitors.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Warren</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1166994</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 16:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1166994</guid>
		<description>Humans thend to behave the way they&#039;re rewarded (or by fear of punishment). Most Web Marketers are evaluated by the amount of sales and increase of sales (or leads, or whatever) they generate. I still have to meet one who would have to report on *profitability*.

Change that, make sure the interactive marketing department is a full P&amp;L in its own right, and reward marketers on their profit optimization tactics, and I can garantee you everybody will be measuring like crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Humans thend to behave the way they&#8217;re rewarded (or by fear of punishment). Most Web Marketers are evaluated by the amount of sales and increase of sales (or leads, or whatever) they generate. I still have to meet one who would have to report on *profitability*.</p>
<p>Change that, make sure the interactive marketing department is a full P&amp;L in its own right, and reward marketers on their profit optimization tactics, and I can garantee you everybody will be measuring like crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1166987</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 15:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1166987</guid>
		<description>In my experience (and the UK may be 18 months behind the US) marketing departments lack the necessary analytical skills to understand the numbers. Many marketers come from creative backgrounds and enjoy the design aspects to their jobs more than the data. Also many marketers are not yet fully bought into continuous optimisation of websites and still still a site as something you build and then promote. Not something that should be measured and improved. Many departments just don&#039;t have the time because they are too busy doing all the traditional non measurable stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience (and the UK may be 18 months behind the US) marketing departments lack the necessary analytical skills to understand the numbers. Many marketers come from creative backgrounds and enjoy the design aspects to their jobs more than the data. Also many marketers are not yet fully bought into continuous optimisation of websites and still still a site as something you build and then promote. Not something that should be measured and improved. Many departments just don&#8217;t have the time because they are too busy doing all the traditional non measurable stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Keyword</title>
		<link>http://www.grokdotcom.com/2009/05/20/why-bother-to-collect-data/comment-page-1/#comment-1166986</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Keyword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 15:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.grokdotcom.com/?p=4078#comment-1166986</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a certain segment of the population that finds even basic sites like Google Analytics to be daunting. Imagine how many site are automatically tracking stats on the server side and don&#039;t even know it, much less know how to analyze them.

I would also contend that many sites consider these tasks to be pretty low on the priority list, even if that notion is a mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a certain segment of the population that finds even basic sites like Google Analytics to be daunting. Imagine how many site are automatically tracking stats on the server side and don&#8217;t even know it, much less know how to analyze them.</p>
<p>I would also contend that many sites consider these tasks to be pretty low on the priority list, even if that notion is a mistake.</p>
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